Build a Networking Mindset and Expand Your Sphere of Influence

Rob Brown 00:00

Welcome to another edition of the truest fan podcast, I can promise you this is going to be a conversation that you’ve never heard before, because I’ve never had a chance to have a long conversation with Michael Goldberg, who is the founder of knock out networking. And he does a ton of work with financial advisors, helping them to be better networkers, better referral partners, really, really get a grip around their business and how to take it to a new level. So, Michael, welcome to the podcast! 

Michael Goldberg 00:38

I appreciate that. And, you know, don’t  make promises, you know, that we can’t keep. No we’re thrilled to be a part of this, Rob.

Rob Brown 00:45

So, Michael, I’m not sure you’ve had a chance to read my book Truest Fan. But one of the things and one of the reasons I wrote through his fan is that I’ve learned a lot from being a fan of professionals and lots of things. But in particular, I tell stories about my favorite baseball team, the Cleveland Indians. So I always like to ask my guests, you know, like, what’s your favorite baseball team? 

Michael Goldberg 01:17

Are they still your favorite baseball team now that they are the guardians? Is that still? Is that still a thing for you now? 

Rob Brown 01:23

Oh, yeah. No, it’s in my blood, it will never go away. Even if they changed the name five more times? 

Michael Goldberg 01:33

Yeah. Well, I’m gonna still call them the Indians. You know, it’s just like all the teams that are changing their names to me. I just, you know, Oakland Raiders, and it’s just me they gotta, they have to go back and some of them do go back. But to me that just gonna always be what they’re going to always be, you know, so what, what was the question? 

Rob Brown 01:47

So what’s your favorite team? Do you have a favorite baseball team?

Michael Goldberg 01:50

Somebody that is not the Cleveland Indians are the guardians, although I do believe that they deserve to have a championship and the great sports team, Sports City. But I’m a New York Mets fan. They’re always kind of promising to be great and just never quite get there. And I thought this year could be the year they look very mediocre. But on the baseball side of things I’m met on the football side of things. I’m a Pittsburgh Steelers, even though I’m a New Yorker forced to live in New Jersey against my will but product of the 70s and you stay loyal to your team. So I’m definitely part of the Steeler nation. But I’m a boxing aficionado. That’s my favorite sport. It’s part of my branding. I’m actually a competitive fighter myself. So even though I’m a fan of baseball, just because you can check the stats every day, you can’t really do that with boxing. But, you know, Cleveland should be there. Every time they play the Yankees for sure?

Rob Brown 02:48

Well, I can, I can appreciate that. And the Mets have a couple of my former favorite players. But that’s what happens when we have to let the expensive guys go when you’re a low budget team. But anyways, I don’t wanna get too much into the basics. But I just I’d love to hear that. But the two other kinds of questions that relate to that one, what do you learn by being a fan when you deserve it? You know, a professional sports team? The Mets or god forbid the Steelers?

What is it that you kind of take away that you see from the athletes and the performances and that you think is something that that we can apply to the 

Michael Goldberg 03:27

Cleveland guy, I knew the Steelers, I knew the Pittsburgh thing would hit you just so I knew.  You know, being a sports fan, you know, to me, there’s, you know, they talk about boxing as being the sweet science. And I think every sport has its dose of both science and art. You know, the science is kind of the x’s in the o’s and the art are the people that just just naturally make it look easy. You know, like, like Tom Brady, you look at him, and you don’t really know why he’s probably the best of all time. But he is, you know, he just because he’s got the art part of the science just is so artful. And I think when you look at top athletes, the ones that are just consistently at the top, it really just is an art form. And then you realize that the ones that make it look easy, there was a lot of hard work that went on behind the scenes, you know, it’s Tom Brady didn’t just, you know, pop onto the field and he was the best ever, you know, we there was some work and until he reached a certain level, I don’t think people appreciate it. 

Rob Brown 04:28

Yeah, that’s I think that’s a great way to to think about it because so often we only watch who crosses the finish line first and it was just the 10 seconds of that race. But there was 1000s of hours that went in to that 10 Second 10 Second 

Michael Goldberg 04:43

daughter run run track it’s a difference of just a couple of seconds. You know, she’s working on her 100 meter and I ran track so now I kind of work with her now. And her her best was like a 14.9 seconds and 100 meters and she would give anything to be 12 She said I want to be two

l second. When you think about it, that’s like, almost three seconds. 123. Like, that’s the difference between good and great. It could just be that, you know, and that’s the beautiful thing about sports is it could just be, you know, just a few points, you know, what’s the difference between batting 300 and batting? 280? You know, it’s like one more hit, right? You know, a game, you know, type of thing, you know? 

Rob Brown 05:22

Right? Absolutely. But you don’t get there by hoping you get those hits. You get there by doing what it takes every day. So when you come to the plate or get to the start line, you’re, you’re ready to go. 

Michael Goldberg 05:37

Yeah. And then it becomes hopefully that art for him. Yeah, so 

Rob Brown 05:39

So you mentioned your love of boxing and being a boxer, talk about how you got involved in that and kind of how that relates to what you do now, in your coaching of financial advisors. 

Michael Goldberg 05:53

You know, I’m onstage, I get that all the time. You know, it’s like, don’t you want to talk about that, the thing you booked me for and but people always want to know about the boxing, but I really do compete. You know, I know this podcast will be dated, but September 16 and 17th of this year 2023. I’m actually slated to be in a competition in Atlantic City. So I’ll be at the showboat hotel, actually boxing and competing. And if I win on the Saturday, I’ll get to the Sunday but all that started, because Oh 17 years ago or so I was I just went to my gym like any other day. And I remember being caught up staring at a guy across the gym that was jumping rope. And if you’ve seen any boxer jump rope, we were talking about art and science, it is definitely a work of art like it is it is beautiful. And I knew as my eyes just sort of like honed in on that guy across the gym. He was clearly a boxer, he was in great shape. And it just didn’t even look like he was exerting himself and I wanted to go over to him and talk to him because I had always wanted to learn how to jump rope like I was like marginally okay, but I wasn’t like him. And and you know, and I’m a networker. So I’m very extrovert, not that you need to be extroverted to be a networker, but I am. And even being an extroverted networker in a comfortable environment called the gym. For me. It took me a couple of weeks to get up enough nerve to go up to the guy and start talking to him. Whereas I talk to people in the gym all the time, even yesterday, I’m just chit chatting with people, not in a disruptive way, but just hey, how are you and just natural, you know, art science. But it took me two weeks to go up to this guy who basically changed my life. And I asked him if he’s a boxer and he said yes. And I asked him if he can give me a tip or a trick with jumping rope. So he gave me the rope. He said, Let me see what you have. So you know, I was okay. But I wasn’t him. You know, he said, Come back to me when you can do 20. And we’ll talk I think he just wanted to get rid of me, you know, so thanks for the time, you know, I apologize for bothering you. And we put his music back and almost like a you know, and I walked away and I went bought a jump rope and got pretty good. And just you know, within the week, I went and kind of bothered him again. But all of a sudden he smiled and he just became my friend. And I’m going to call this guy Dan Cook, because that’s his name. But so So Dan and I are now friends and Dan puts me in touch with his trainer. And so I connect with the Trent right networking. So I connect with the trainer, and I hire the trainer to teach me how to jump rope. So he gives me his address. I go to the trainer’s house, which is a couple of towns away from where I live. And there’s cars in the driveway. Like a lot of cars on the street. What is going on here? Is there a party so I get you know, he he’s at the door when I arrive and he takes me downstairs and you’re like, like, you know the movie, we don’t talk about fight club, Fight Club is going on in this guy’s basement, you would never know until you were there. And the basement was carved out to be this boxing gym with a ring and a whole bunch of guys there you would never know. And now I was blown away by this. And this was the guy that the trainer I can tell he was kind of like giggling at me, I almost felt like he was making fun of me, like in a passive aggressive way and that some of the other guys were kind of in on it. I just kind of kind of felt like a little bit of an outsider. And I told him I so I feel like you’re making fun of me a little bit. He’s like, you’ll get the joke in a minute. And in about four or five minutes, he had me jumping rope, like a champ. And that was the joke. Like, I can’t believe you paid me to teach you how to do that. That turn that was a joke. That was it, you know, so. And as soon as I got it, I got it. And he said, but let’s put some wraps and gloves on you. You look like you could hit something. And I got in the ring. And he taught me some things and the sales pitch came hire me to be your coach, you are a natural blah, blah, blah. So I bought it. And I bought him. And in three months I was in the ring. And the rest, as they say is history. So the reason why that’s a great story, I think is because I’m still friends with this circle. And not only did they get me into boxing, but they changed my brand like my company is knockout networking. I don’t know if that happens without this. And it’s also a networking story because without making a connection and being bold enough to say, you know, can I ask you a question? Hi, my name is maybe none of that stuff happens. So it’s about the connection. And you know

Just wondering how many chances we don’t take that are just really minimal risk? Where there’s an answer at the other side, it certainly was for me, right. 

Rob Brown 10:09

And there were, you know, a couple of different paths that you took. In doing that you took the path that led to the boxing. But also it sounds it sounds like it also reinforce your beliefs and the importance of, of networking. So weird that networking.

Michael Goldberg 10:28

If I’m an extroverted, I love talking to people guy that took me two weeks to get up enough nerve to talk to Dan, you know, I can imagine if you’re not like that, which is most people, right, that wouldn’t take the chance. So like, we leave opportunity on the table only, you know, every single day. So it’s part of what I, what I teach and preach is, you know, not that you should be on the, you know, on the seven train at one in the morning, you know, and starting to kind of work the car, work the room, kind of know your audience, but that if you don’t ask the question, the answer is always no. So there is a little bit about taking a chance making a connection, starting a conversation, you know, as appropriate. 

Rob Brown 11:05

So where did the desire to teach other people to do that come from, you know, you talked about being and it sounds like it was a bit of a natural, 

Michael Goldberg 11:13

I was taught, you know, I was taught by being around some of the right people that were influencers for me. And I just saw what kind of success level it took them to and even confidence level, it took them two, so I was really inspired to just pay it forward. So when I started my business, I was learning all the, you know, the tricks of the trade before I was teaching networking, I was like a leadership.

Yeah, it was like a leadership guy and leadership communication guy. And then I started learning about networking and the value of you know, to make a connection, like, like what you can get from that, and what you can get from that. So I was just so taken by what I was learning. And what was happening as a result is I just wanted to pay it forward. And that’s what a good networker does a good networker is all about the give rather than the get. And so I realized that was just instilled in me all along. So I made what I talk about now really easy, because all the stuff I do 

Rob Brown 12:05

well, you know that that to a lot of people, that idea that the give is all about the get sounds like a bunch of baloney that you always have to have your eyes set on what you want. But obviously you don’t, you don’t believe that you you see you believe in the give what I believe, 

Michael Goldberg 12:25

I believe you always get you know, and that’s not the reason to do it. But that’s how relationships work because you got to contribute to relationships, and you always get something, it may not be business, it may not be sort of a tit for tat sort of thing. But but it’s certainly, you know, you learn, there’s all kinds of give and take, you know, and that’s what real relationships are, you know, otherwise, they’re just transactional, you know, so I mean business, there is a transactional aspect to it. But at the end of the day, it’s really about the great relationships that we form. And the best ways to form them is, you know, it’s gotta be it’s gotta be two ways, you know, what those two ways look like may depend?

Rob Brown 13:01

And do you find that when you do that, that sometimes the get isn’t necessarily what you may have had in the back of your mind. But it’s something bigger and greater that maybe comes out of the blue sometime later. But you can trace it back to the fact that you were just willing to give as an outlet. 

Michael Goldberg 13:23

Yeah, without a doubt, Yeah, that happens a lot. A lot of times I reflect on either business I’m doing or relationships that I have. And I, you know, I start to think about where that all came from, you know, six degrees of separation and all that and kind of Kevin baking it back. And,

you know, just even like this client, you and I were talking offline, I’ve got a big audience, I’ll be speaking for next week. But that’s a long standing client. And after I got off of my prep call earlier with them, I started thinking about how they came into my life. And four or five other names came to mind as to how I got there in the first place. And then it’s sort of making me think maybe I should reconnect with some of those people, because they’ve moved on and you know, so there’s always people that you kind of think of that maybe we should be in better touch with but there’s only so many hours and so many people, but it’s being mindful about being a connector and staying in touch and keeping things collaborative. 

Rob Brown 14:19

So if if a financial advisor is listening to this podcast, and they’re thinking, you know, I’ve heard this before, you know, I need to be a better networker, but I’m not a natural so I’m gonna go I don’t know, go pay somebody a zillion dollars to give me leads that don’t turn into clients. get them started to pay me a zillion dollars to teach them

There you go. There you go. That just makes it easy. But But what it was that thing that you do to really get somebody started to to be that that giver, to be that networker to help, you know, because I think even the greatest introverts have some extrovert in, they just have to pull it pull it out. 

Michael Goldberg 15:09

Yeah. Well, you know, and I think there’s a misnomer that you have to be extrovert to be a great networker, and you don’t. You know, one thing almost has nothing to do with the other. I know great networkers that are introverted, you know. So being introverted doesn’t mean you don’t like talking to people, it just means that you don’t really lead with that it doesn’t come easily for you. But introverts are really good about creating a process and a process for connecting and following up and following through and staying in touch. So one has nothing to do with the other. But it’s kind of like unboxing, everything’s off the jab. And when you’re connecting with people, everything is off the conversation. And introverts sometimes have a challenge, or at least feel they have a challenge of how do they get that jab in there to kind of get the whole sequence started. But for advisors that are listening, I think it always starts with mindset, like your mindset has to be about the give, it has to be about the health, it has to be about the learn. If that isn’t there and can’t be developed, it’s over. It’s over, it all starts from that it doesn’t just happen intrinsically where you like to talk to people you like to connect you like to help you like to serve, you’d like to see others succeed. I think all of that is kind of baked into what I call a networking mindset. It all starts from that. So a lot of my own work is if I’m working with advisors, and it’s generally groups, I generally don’t do a lot of one on one stuff, it’s usually groups, but it’s really just molding that mindset, or if they have that amplifying that mindset. And then after that, it’s about, you know, really being able to articulate and focus on a target market. Right, knowing who you serve best, and therefore wish to serve most like those are the two major things initially is mindset and then having a really good and clear idea about who your best fit or right fit clients are.

Rob Brown 16:59

Yeah, and that makes that makes perfect sense. But I love the fact that you use the word serve several times. And what I have found in my work with financial advisors over the years, as financial advisors are good givers, they do like to serve other people. But sometimes they don’t take that service mentality into their business. They they relegate it to, you know, what they do for the causes that they care about? 

Michael Goldberg 17:33

Well, I look at service as being a client function, rather than being a marketing function. And they’re both.

Rob Brown 17:39

Yeah, no, no, it absolutely is. So I think that is, that’s, that’s fascinating to kind of put those two things together. So one of the questions I’d love to ask and you and you alluded to this earlier, but I didn’t, I didn’t jump in, then I love to figure out like, what was like one was the like, one piece of advice that really put you over the top, you know, from those mentors, or people that kind of got you going down this road to be the networking expert that you’ve become.

Michael Goldberg 18:14

When I first started, I just started pitching my services to everybody that I met. It just seemed like Okay, so do you need training services, you need a coach, it was it was kind of like that, you know, and until somebody took me aside and said, Listen, that’s not networking, you know, people are gonna be like, repelled and repulse from you. And they were, they were, and it wasn’t that I was meaning to be bad or wrong. I just didn’t know I was naive, I’d never needed to be in circles like that. And until I made that, because I didn’t have the networking mindset, I had a sales mindset, both good, but there’s time in place. And as soon as I made that shift myself, and I realized I tapped into, that’s, I guess, who I am anyway, like, I love helping people. But I didn’t really know how to make that shift. And then that’s how it became, I became kind of a natural mean, getting back to the art and science because it’s kind of like few, I don’t have to sell everybody my services. It’s not about that. But if I can listen, learn and help other people that I like and think are good at their services, they might help me right back. And that was a major shift. 

Rob Brown 19:19

So I’ve just got to be me. I’ve got to be making sure that I understand who it is I want to serve what and that can be true in your business or the other activities you’re involved in. But who do I want to serve? And then how do I make sure that when I’m having conversations, I’m thinking about, like, what’s the next step and that service and that connection, that that keeps it going? Because I think that’s another place that networking dies? You know, you show up at that event, you do a good job, never and you do get somebody say yeah, call me. And then you don’t want know what to talk to him about when you reach out to them the next time. 

Michael Goldberg 19:53

Yeah, well, it’s also that conundrum of are they a prospect? Or are they a potential referral partner? Right, you know, so if if everybody shows up like a prospect, we tend to show up as salespeople. Right as right we that that kicks in, you know, if What’s the expression if you’re a hammer, everything’s a nail, you know, I think that’s how it right. So it shouldn’t really be like that, but it’s, but it’s really how you assess things, you know. And there are people that, that say all the right things or tried to say all the right things were at the events because they want to look good or feel good. But if there’s no there there, then nothing’s going to happen in terms of a follow up. But, but but I think it feels right, when if I’m speaking to you at an event, Rob, and there’s just stuff to talk about, you know, whether it’s the Indians, guardians, the steel, whatever it is right away into sports, or into whatever we’re talking about, if I was gonna say, you know, I don’t want to hold you up. But we’d love to exchange contact information. However, we do it with QR codes or cards these days, right. And I would love to continue our dialogue, you know, when we’re not pressed for so much time, and maybe figure out how we can be resources for one another, like, who’s not going to take that on, because it’s a win win, it’s collaborative. And if there’s already a good vibe, and a good connection, let’s see where this might go. And again, it’s not that I’m selling you anything, but maybe the one thing I am selling you is the opportunity to continue our dialogue, and see where this whole thing could go. 

Worst case scenario fun, like worst case scenario, that’s, that’s how I want it to be I want people to, if nothing happens, at least we had a blast learning about one another, you know, but you just don’t know where it’s gonna go. 

Rob Brown 21:30

But there’s intentionality in that offer to exchange cards or QR codes, and get together because there is a step and you can’t take the step after that, to determine if they can be a referral partner or a prospect or a client. If you don’t have step two, can’t get to step three without step two. 

Michael Goldberg 21:50

Right now, it’s exactly right. You know, and how many meetings and, you know, I think we both experiences do you have with people then nothing happens, like, I have had 1000s of meetings probably over the years with people. And there’s so there’s so few, and I’m a network, I teach this stuff. And there’s just so few that you stay in touch with and good things happen. Worst case scenario, your friends, like that’s worst case scenario, but best case scenario, your friends, and I was gonna say friends with benefits your friends.

There’s all kinds of cool things that are happening, you know, big fun business, the whole thing, you know, and, you know, it’s because something’s missing. You know, it’s like when you know, and, and the thing that I have found this missing is that a lot of people don’t realize that there’s more than one dimension to networking. Like, there’s the face to face stuff. But that’s 25% of it. I think there’s four different dimensions. There’s your preparation, who am I going to meet? What am I going to say? Why, how am I potentially going to serve? Who’s going to be there? How should I show up so there’s the preparation phase, or dimension, there’s the presentation, like what we’re saying, in real time, face to face, nose to nose, belly to belly, which if you’re a networker is kind of the fun stuff. There’s the follow up, or as I like to call it, the fu, there’s the follow up or the follow through. And then there’s the staying in touch, or the out of sight is out of mind. Or if you want to create an acronym out of that it’s who see you, if you’re just kind of curious. Sounds like it? Yeah. Probably. But, but but there’s four dimensions to this thing. And it’s having a process to be able to really show up as a champ, you know, you know, in all four, you know, and if you don’t know what all four, are, you’re missing a dimension or two. 

Rob Brown 23:50

Yeah, well, that’s, that’s awesome. Because one of the things that I like to make sure that we do on a pod on the podcast is to give our listeners something actionable. And what you just you just, you just kind of gave people a quiz, they can take about their networking, and grade themselves in each of those four areas. And if they’re really serious about getting better, they need to improve in each of those four years, or maybe they’re good in three of them, and they just need to add the fourth so it’s a it’s a great way to, to think about things so we’re coming to the end, I want the audience to understand the best way to get to know you and more about you so maybe if they’re looking to get some networking help or or help you because maybe they have an audience that you could speak to or talk to what’s what’s the best way to do that. Yeah, 

Michael Goldberg 24:42

I appreciate Well, I want to just say one thing on the actionable side if I could show it so one thing that I often leave clients with and even audiences again, I don’t do a lot of one on one but audiences with is the ability to be able to create their own what I call a daily fight plan. And a daily fight plan is taking those four dimensions an I’d mentioned before preparation, presentation, follow up and maintenance or staying in touch, and having a plan that you could use every day, like literally to make sure that these things are happening. So I line it up as like 123, like your 123 punch. So what one thing could you do every day, so maybe it’s contacting one prospect every day, the two could be following up with two clients every day. And the third could be reconnecting or following up with three centers of influence or referral partners every day. And if you want to take the advance session, you know, the four could be, you know, reconnect with four past clients, or the five could be make five outreaches, to new connections that are relevant on LinkedIn. So whatever that 123 or 12345 is for you put that in a document, like those are just some of mine, you could be anything, right? Could be whatever makes sense to you. But imagine what happens if you did that only every day. And we’re talking about maybe 10 or 15 minutes a day that that gets scheduled. And if you did that every day, right, so call it the 12345. So that’s five 910 1112, that’s 15 potential outreaches, that you’re making a day multiplied by five days a week. That’s pretty good.

And they call that marketing. And that’s you’re doing all four dimensions, just by doing this every day, provided that the mindset is around, not that I’m selling you. But how can we help one another? How can we learn from one another? How can we stay in touch, collaborate, be resources for one another? Right? Taking those 15 times five? How can you not create more and better opportunities for yourself? You know what it costs? Nothing? Nothing. And that’s your daily fight plan. So if you want to learn more about that a want to learn more about me getting back to Rob’s question, which was gracious, and I thank you, is my company is knockout networking, and you can track me down at knockout networking.com. I’m also the founder of a national networking organization or networking group called wait for it, the networking group, or T and G. And if you want to find out more about that group, it’s virtual, it’s national, although we do lead some live events. Or you can find that through my website at knockout networking.com. Or simply go to the networking group.org. And you can certainly learn more about that. 

Rob Brown 27:32

That’s awesome. And I would encourage those of you who are listening to this to check out the network, it would check out both websites, but I’ve been a guest of a few or a couple of knockout of noneconomic tng groups, getting all my acronyms confused. And it’s been fascinating. And I’m looking forward to continuing the relationship with you Michael through through that, and I met you through networking, one of our, one of our mutual friends introduced us. 

And I know that sounds like the end, but I want to go back to your action plan, because I love what you said about that 123, I use a concept called having a success habits come up with a formula that you do every day that you know that if you do it, you’ll eventually get to where you want to go, even if you might end up one day and the person that you want to network and was going to give you that big introduction, false or not disappointed, because you know, you did what you needed to do you put in, you put into work. So I really love that idea. 

Michael Goldberg 28:40

Because I really look at it through the guys. And the eyes of a boxer. You know, like a boxer is training for a fight, they’ve got to do the thing, they’ve got to do their routine every single day. And box boxers are notoriously about rituals, you know, so it’s, I have to be running at the same time, every day, I have to be doing the jump rope and all the stuff that you’re supposed to do the sparring, and I become so ritualistic because of that is that business is kind of the same way. So my ritual in business is when I was training for a fight, you know, I’ve got a 90 day goal if I’m going to hit my 90 Day goal, and I divvy it up into the amount of you know, the amount of time it’s going to take, you know, every day to kind of lead me to that fight. That’s what the daily fight plan is, because everything on that plan. And the example that I’ve shared is actionable, every single thing, it costs nothing and there’s nobody preventing us from doing it. And it’s really simple to do and I have found certainly in business that the simplest things to do or also the simplest things not to do not to do. 

Rob Brown 29:41

And you’re you’re giving and having fun while you’re doing it because it’s it’s a little bit of a competition with yourself but you’re but you have it you’re doing it with the right mindset. I just I just love that idea. I think that’s great. 

Michael Goldberg 29:50

And I even gamify it, you know if there’s five entries 1234 Or five, each one’s worth 20 points. So the goal is to earn 100 points every day. You know my favorite

 Hang on, it’s the 30 minutes a day, and I don’t always do it. You know, it’s usually at, you know, we don’t always complete I usually do. But you know, sometimes, you know, I mean, life takes old, you know, you have to prioritize things. But it’s really not about perfection, it is about progress. 

Rob Brown 30:15

Yeah. And if you’re going to make progress, you’re not going to be perfect every step of the way. You’re always going to take a step back here and there because stuff happens. And, but But you know what you need to do the next day to get back on track. You don’t have to rethink the whole thing. You say, Okay, what’s my new pipeline? I’ll just go back to what I said. 

Michael Goldberg 30:33

My way yesterday, where I only scored a 60 or an ad again. All right, maybe the next time I won’t jump into email first. And maybe that was a mistake. Maybe let’s get all this stuff done before I do whatever it took to kind of derail me or sometimes we can’t help but I gotta bring the kid to school. You know, those things happen. 

Rob Brown 30:53

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, that was awesome, Michael, I really appreciate you sharing as much as you did. I feel like it’s really an actual way a different way of approaching networking. And honestly, just, I like to think sometimes that I’ve heard all the great ideas because I’ve been at this so long, but you add some great nuance to it that really, you know, makes it more exciting. And I just I just love the energy that you bring to 

Michael Goldberg 31:17

I appreciate appreciate the kind words I’m glad you and I connected.

Rob Brown 31:20

Roger that. Well, okay, well, I’m gonna sign us off. Hey, thanks, everybody for listening to the podcast. If you loved what you heard, which I know you did, make sure you give us a five star rating, and we’ll talk again next week. Take care